As part of Cut From AnOther Cloth, Rikesh Chauhan interviews a series of craftspeople of colour who work on and around Savile Row. The project was conducted in collaboration with social impact company Other Box.
Having worked his way up through brands including Gieves & Hawkes, Scabal and Suitsupply, Taj Phull is the first person of colour to become managing director of Huntsman, and one of a select few in managerial positions. Chuksi Ibe, of Nigerian descent, is an apprentice coatmaker for Huntsman and a recent recipient of the Master Certificate Scheme’s Apprentice of the Year Award.
Their roles keep them quite busy, with often conflicting schedules. While Taj and I have known each other for a few years, we tend to bump into one another on the Row very sporadically. Meanwhile, Chuksi came recommended by Savile Row’s 2023 Golden Shears winner Mila Dastugue as someone I simply needed to feature. After finding exactly one hour where all of our respective schedules aligned, I managed to speak to Taj and Chuksi at Huntsman on 11 Savile Row.
Tell me about your background.
Taj: I’m from South East London, born and raised in Plumstead. I grew up in a very diverse community, but always on the fringes of racism. We lived three miles, tops, from the British National Party's head office and two and a half miles away from the National Front. So in terms of 1990s racism, in terms of what we grew up with, we’ve always been at the forefront and had a different understanding, because racism for us wasn’t just verbal, it was physical. At my secondary school, we used to play ‘Blacks versus whites’ at football, and it was condoned by the school. They just let you get on with it, because at that time, it wasn’t necessarily considered racism — it was just a way of life. It’s only when you look at it retrospectively that you realise.
Chuksi: I was born in Clapham South. That hospital is now a Tesco.
How did you get into menswear?
Chuksi: I was previously in pharmaceuticals, got tired and started doing loads of other little courses. I found a clothmaking one and enjoyed it — mainly for the company I was around, I wasn’t really any good at it. People told me to next try tailoring. I found an open day at a school in East London and then my mind was made up.
So was Huntsman your first apprenticeship?
Chuksi: First proper one, yeah. When I was on the course, I went to tailors and became a nuisance basically, that’s kinda how you had to do it. Go from here to there doing internships and getting a feel for it, and just to learn if it’s really what you want to do. Then, my first proper placement was with a tailor in Fitzrovia, but I was kept at a certain level. I was there for a few years.
Taj: My parents put me through law, my brother through medicine. It was just classification, you know? Family just wanting the best for their kid, but I decided that law wasn’t for me. I wanted to get into menswear. That journey started properly from a commercial perspective at TM Lewin, and Gieves & Hawkes is where I had quite a long tenure between Savile Row, Sloane Square and the City. I eventually moved over to Scabal where I did probably just under three years between London, Belgium and Paris.
So quite a few different avenues in the early part of my career, which then resulted in my role as made-to-measure manager for Suitsupply in Europe. And that was probably my biggest curve in terms of commercial experience, because essentially, it’s the McDonald’s of tailoring — but an incredible product. You’re exposed to something that’s very good, very well priced, but has that commercial get-it-out-the-door approach; an incredibly fast-paced environment. There, I realised that my love lay in the final part of that journey. I came back to the Row and joined Huntsman, and I’ve been here nearly six years now.
Taj, what’s it like being a person of colour in a role like yours? You’re probably one of the only ones on Savile Row?
Taj: To my knowledge, I’m probably the first and only person of colour who sits on the board for the Savile Row Bespoke Association (SRBA). It’s challenging at times because — and it’s almost like people would turn around and say it’s insecurity — you question whether these people respect me because I’m good at what I do, or am I a token hire? And one of the big things that [Huntsman owner] Pierre Lagrange advocates is that it’s never been a tokenised situation. When we hire, we hire based on skill set.
What would be your advice for those who want to work on the Row?
Chuksi: Know what you want to do, because you don’t want to find out the hard way. Go around talking to people, try internships. Get a feel. It’s a small industry, everyone knows everyone, and you want to work in the right way. Everyone’s sort of left of centre, so if you’re a normal person, perhaps it’s not really the career for you. But yeah, there’s no one set route. Be yourself and just work hard.
Taj: Don’t try and fit in. For me, being the best in class because of drive and determination is way better than coming in via someone who you got on well with at the Masons Arms pub. Our parents’ generation — the first generation of immigrants — instilled a strong work ethic into us, but we should work hard because it’s in us to do it anyway, not just because we have to, being people of colour.
That’s an interesting point. Do you feel as people of colour, we need to work harder to get the same opportunities?
Taj: Oh, yeah, hands down. I had this conversation with my wife and she asked me a question: ‘Do you work harder because you’re Asian?’ I am in no way under any pressure in terms of how hard I work; however, I do feel it among my peers.
And Chuksi, you got into this industry at 36. Did you find that quite difficult?
Chuksi: I was given the impression that it would be the case by a lot of people, but it wasn’t actually that bad. I made sure I really wanted to do it and went beneath the surface of tailoring before making the jump.
Is there a long way to go in terms of diversity for Savile Row?
Taj: At an ethnicity level, yeah. I was the appeals chairman this year for the Bespoke Tailors Benevolent Association and when you look around, you’re in a room among white British people. You’re at SRBA, you’re in a room full of white British people again — and also of an older age. So a 35-year-old Asian man from South London stepping into the room who’s a little bit rough around the edges, was a little bit of a culture shock for them. I would say Savile Row is ready for that ethnicity change, but it’s more of a case of having the applicants to do it.
I remember around 10 or so years ago when I was hiring for a design agency, 80 per cent or so of applicants for this particular role were white.
Taj: Yeah, your talent pool is basically white British people. Take representation organisation The Outsiders Perspective, for instance: the things they’re doing are very clever in terms of getting people of colour into medium, middle management and senior management roles. That’s how we’re going to get people into the industry, where they look at the best of the best of people of colour from the outset.
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More from this series:
Introducing Cut From AnOther Cloth
Cut From AnOther Cloth: Dhruva Chandramouli and Jenny Chim
Cut From AnOther Cloth: Nadia Alsagoff, Ji Hae An Sykes and Takudzwa Chigaduro
